Too Much Spam

[John_Thomas-5]

In my opinion, the spam reflects poorly on eGroupWare. Perhaps new
users think the following, “If the group cannot figure out how to stop
spam, how can the do anything else right.”

I think non-subscribed senders to the list is allowed to allow the
forums to work, but there must be a better way. I suggest disallowing
non-subscribed members and shutting down the forum. There is likely a
way to have a forum and a list, but until someone shows how to do it,
shut down the forum and improve the image of eGroupWare.

–
Sincerely,
John Thomas

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[wolf.fle]

hi,
just wanted to write something else but similar:

if you can not inhibit the mail spam, please at least order a moderator to remove it from the forum.
nabbles moderation by users does not help enough
wolf

In my opinion, the spam reflects poorly on eGroupWare. Perhaps new
users think the following, “If the group cannot figure out how to stop
spam, how can the do anything else right.”

I think non-subscribed senders to the list is allowed to allow the
forums to work, but there must be a better way. I suggest disallowing
non-subscribed members and shutting down the forum. There is likely a
way to have a forum and a list, but until someone shows how to do it,
shut down the forum and improve the image of eGroupWare.

–
Sincerely,
John Thomas

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[bones0]

Hi

John Thomas schrieb:

In my opinion, the spam reflects poorly on eGroupWare. Perhaps new
users think the following, “If the group cannot figure out how to stop
spam, how can the do anything else right.”

Indeed. That’s what I thought. But I already knew that eGroupWare is a
great product. But I still think that today everybody should know that
internet-based services without a strong spam protection of some sort
are history.

I think non-subscribed senders to the list is allowed to allow the
forums to work, but there must be a better way.
Yes, there should be! If nabble can’t do it well use another forum. I am
sure there’s one… and if not, tell me before friday and I will see
what I can do during easter holiday.

As far as I see it needs:

• a good forum (with all that funky, blinking and jumping stuff we all
  love so much
• a good list manager (without all that funky, blinking… etc. )
• a mail-gateway which:
  • puts mails into the forum
  • puts forum posting into the mailinglist
  • synchronises forum users with the list manager (That seems to be the
    part nabble doesn’t do)

Regards
Peter

–

mit freundlichen Grüssen

Peter Guhl
Win-Lux GmbH
Obere Schöntalstrasse 22
CH - 8406 Winterthur

Telefon: +41 (0)81 330 51 51
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[Lars_Kneschke-2]

“Peter Guhl” schrieb:

As far as I see it needs:

• a good forum (with all that funky, blinking and jumping stuff we all
  love so much
• a good list manager (without all that funky, blinking… etc. )
• a mail-gateway which:
  • puts mails into the forum
  • puts forum posting into the mailinglist
  • synchronises forum users with the list manager (That seems to be the
    part nabble doesn’t do)
    Hello Peter!

We choosed Nabble because no free forum software could fulfil the
requirements posted above.

But that was at least one year ago. If you like to have a look at the
problem again, I’m very interested knowing the result.

–
Lars Kneschke
CTO OfficeSpot.Net
Metaways Infosystems GmbH
Pickhuben 2-4, D-20457 Hamburg

eGroupWare Support: http://www.egroupware-support.net
OfficeSpot.Net Collaboration Server: http://cs.officespot.net
our ideas for eGroupWare: http://www.tine20.org

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[Pongracz_Istvan-2]

Hi,

2008. 3. 18, kedd keltezéssel 10.54-kor Lars Kneschke ezt írta:

“Peter Guhl” schrieb:

As far as I see it needs:

• a good forum (with all that funky, blinking and jumping stuff we all
  love so much
• a good list manager (without all that funky, blinking… etc. )
• a mail-gateway which:
  • puts mails into the forum
  • puts forum posting into the mailinglist
  • synchronises forum users with the list manager (That seems to be the
    part nabble doesn’t do)
    Hello Peter!

We choosed Nabble because no free forum software could fulfil the
requirements posted above.

But that was at least one year ago. If you like to have a look at the
problem again, I’m very interested knowing the result.

I know that, the phpBB v3.x has a solution to provide a gateway between
mailing list and forum, called m2f (mail2forum).
I planned to use it, but until now I had no time to do it.
Use the google to find it.

Cheers,
István

–
BSA. Mert megérdemlitek.
Open Source. Mert megérdemlem.

BSA. They value it.
Open Source. The value. It.

http://www.osbusiness.hu

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[bones0]

Hi

Lars Kneschke schrieb:

“Peter Guhl” schrieb:

As far as I see it needs:

• a good forum (with all that funky, blinking and jumping stuff we all
  love so much
• a good list manager (without all that funky, blinking… etc. )
• a mail-gateway which:
  • puts mails into the forum
  • puts forum posting into the mailinglist
  • synchronises forum users with the list manager (That seems to be the
    part nabble doesn’t do)

Hello Peter!

We choosed Nabble because no free forum software could fulfil the
requirements posted above.

I guess that means mainly the mail <-> forum gateway? Should be possible
to add to something like phpBB. But of course when it’s about recieving
mails the whole hosting service needs to be tailored - hosting it like
nabble makes sense. BTW: Spam protection is, of course, a bit of the
same. For my own Guestbook etc. I use a bayes filter installed at my
own, private webserver (I put the project on sourceforge, named
"spfgb"). Doing the same at an ISP would be expensive…

But that was at least one year ago. If you like to have a look at the
problem again, I’m very interested knowing the result.

If I get some time over the holidays I will for sure post the result in
here.

Regards
Peter

mit freundlichen Grüssen

Peter Guhl
Win-Lux GmbH
Obere Schöntalstrasse 22
CH - 8406 Winterthur

Telefon: +41 (0)81 330 51 51
Mobil +41 (0)76 437 03 09
Fax: +41 (0)81 332 44 58
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Skype: p_guhl
Web: http://www.win-lux.ch

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[Milosch]

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[Frank-D]

Hi all,

I would volunteer helping deleting spam in nabble.

If phpBB with m2f really is much better, we could think about this. But we should consider:
A new forum would imply, that you had to move to the new one on a defined date and after switching you would have to search in 2 forums looking for an answer, in order to see older as well as newer posts. In addition to his users might have to create new accounts.
No forum-mailinglist software is perfect, which problems exactly are solved with phpBB.
On the other hand, I think phpBB, as a php OpenSource programm might offer some strategic advantages. If we use it ourself it might get integrated into egroupware more and more (first user accounts, at the end maybe even as an egw-app).

Anyway, moving our mailinglists, our most important communication channel should not be done light-minded.

Frank

hi,
just wanted to write something else but similar:

if you can not inhibit the mail spam, please at least order a moderator to remove it from the forum.
nabbles moderation by users does not help enough
wolf

In my opinion, the spam reflects poorly on eGroupWare. Perhaps new
users think the following, “If the group cannot figure out how to stop
spam, how can the do anything else right.”

I think non-subscribed senders to the list is allowed to allow the
forums to work, but there must be a better way. I suggest disallowing
non-subscribed members and shutting down the forum. There is likely a
way to have a forum and a list, but until someone shows how to do it,
shut down the forum and improve the image of eGroupWare.

–
Sincerely,
John Thomas

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[bones0]

Hello

Miles Lott schrieb:

From what I know, the main reason there is spam was because of nabble
and the lack of control requiring the allowance of non-subscribers to
post to the list(s).

Also, I have used phpBB in the past for the m2f feature and would be
able and interested in setting it up and hosting it for our use.
Does m2f provide account synchronisation too? I have integrated phpBB
into a CMS once; it has a single sign on feature. But, of course, that
one is meant for other web-applications. Syncing accounts with a list
manager probably requires different actions - if it’s not simply
possible to use the same database for both systems.

Regards
Peter

–

mit freundlichen Grüssen

Peter Guhl
Win-Lux GmbH
Obere Schöntalstrasse 22
CH - 8406 Winterthur

Telefon: +41 (0)81 330 51 51
Mobil +41 (0)76 437 03 09
Fax: +41 (0)81 332 44 58
Mail: peter.guhl@win-lux.ch
Skype: p_guhl
Web: http://www.win-lux.ch

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[wolf.fle]

no decision of egw-admins to call a moderator until now?
is this weakness of leadership or missing attention or what?
users and developers suffer this.
please comment.
wolf

ps: spam arose after change of nabble - but post hoc non est propter hoc - so what to do?

Hi all,

I would volunteer helping deleting spam in nabble.

If phpBB with m2f really is much better, we could think about this. But we should consider:
A new forum would imply, that you had to move to the new one on a defined date and after switching you would have to search in 2 forums looking for an answer, in order to see older as well as newer posts. In addition to his users might have to create new accounts.
No forum-mailinglist software is perfect, which problems exactly are solved with phpBB.
On the other hand, I think phpBB, as a php OpenSource programm might offer some strategic advantages. If we use it ourself it might get integrated into egroupware more and more (first user accounts, at the end maybe even as an egw-app).

Anyway, moving our mailinglists, our most important communication channel should not be done light-minded.

Frank

hi,
just wanted to write something else but similar:

if you can not inhibit the mail spam, please at least order a moderator to remove it from the forum.
nabbles moderation by users does not help enough
wolf

In my opinion, the spam reflects poorly on eGroupWare. Perhaps new
users think the following, “If the group cannot figure out how to stop
spam, how can the do anything else right.”

I think non-subscribed senders to the list is allowed to allow the
forums to work, but there must be a better way. I suggest disallowing
non-subscribed members and shutting down the forum. There is likely a
way to have a forum and a list, but until someone shows how to do it,
shut down the forum and improve the image of eGroupWare.

–
Sincerely,
John Thomas

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[Milosch]

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[Fossil2]

Don’t like spam; but I “like” “moderated” lists and BBs even less…
Nabble and the current mail lists are open, fair, and fine for me.
You don’t speak for me and just because others don’t share your opinion
or priorities doesn’t make them weak or lacking in attention.
Nigel

Wolf Fle schrieb:

no decision of egw-admins to call a moderator until now?
is this weakness of leadership or missing attention or what?
users and developers suffer this.
please comment.
wolf

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[Oscar_Manuel_Gomez_S]

John Thomas escribió:

In my opinion, the spam reflects poorly on eGroupWare. Perhaps new
users think the following, “If the group cannot figure out how to stop
spam, how can the do anything else right.”

I think non-subscribed senders to the list is allowed to allow the
forums to work, but there must be a better way. I suggest disallowing
non-subscribed members and shutting down the forum. There is likely a
way to have a forum and a list, but until someone shows how to do it,
shut down the forum and improve the image of eGroupWare.

I have to say that a small and quick audit of the received spam only in
the last month in this list and the spanish user list is over 100 mails
both together, which is a lot of spam. I don’t know if there’s somewhere
a ranking of spammed lists/forums, but regardless that, these numbers,
by themselves, indicate (sadly) that egw mailing lists/forum are a toy
for spammers, so I think doing nothing about that is not an option.

I don’t know if the following behaviour is possible:

• • Only suscribed members can mail/post in the lists. Of course, everyone
    can read public lists. Moderating only causes a lot of work for
    moderators because most of the moderated stuff will be spam.
• • Forum posts shouldn’t be accepted by default by the mailing list,
    unless the original poster is suscribed. This surely means unsuscribe
    the user for the forum from the mailing list.
• • Additionally, to be considered, something like a different and
    moderated forum/mailing list for non-suscribed users. This would mean
    extra work for the moderators, of course.

In my opinion, nabble policy has done a lot of harm to egw mailing
lists. Theorically according to their policy, spam “is not supposed” to
happen (trusting the posters’ behaviour), but nabble takes no action
against spam, so having an open forum with no spam is not possible in
real internet world. Thus, going back to some hosted forum is the best
in terms of safety and good health.

Regards.

---

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[Milosch]

The immediate solution is to simply disable non-subscriber email, since
the source could either be nabble or simply a script running against
sourceforge. I never personally liked that the list was open, but it
was done to work with nabble.

Again, I have worked with phpbb and m2f in the past and am willing to
try to get that setup if enough of us agree.

Oscar Manuel Gómez Senovilla wrote:

I have to say that a small and quick audit of the received spam only in
the last month in this list and the spanish user list is over 100 mails
both together, which is a lot of spam. I don’t know if there’s somewhere
a ranking of spammed lists/forums, but regardless that, these numbers,
by themselves, indicate (sadly) that egw mailing lists/forum are a toy
for spammers, so I think doing nothing about that is not an option.

I don’t know if the following behaviour is possible:

• • Only suscribed members can mail/post in the lists. Of course, everyone
    can read public lists. Moderating only causes a lot of work for
    moderators because most of the moderated stuff will be spam.
• • Forum posts shouldn’t be accepted by default by the mailing list,
    unless the original poster is suscribed. This surely means unsuscribe
    the user for the forum from the mailing list.
• • Additionally, to be considered, something like a different and
    moderated forum/mailing list for non-suscribed users. This would mean
    extra work for the moderators, of course.

In my opinion, nabble policy has done a lot of harm to egw mailing
lists. Theorically according to their policy, spam “is not supposed” to
happen (trusting the posters’ behaviour), but nabble takes no action
against spam, so having an open forum with no spam is not possible in
real internet world. Thus, going back to some hosted forum is the best
in terms of safety and good health.

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[Oscar_Manuel_Gomez_S]

Miles Lott escribió:

The immediate solution is to simply disable non-subscriber email, since
the source could either be nabble or simply a script running against
sourceforge. I never personally liked that the list was open, but it
was done to work with nabble.

Again, I have worked with phpbb and m2f in the past and am willing to
try to get that setup if enough of us agree.

Hi, Miles.

I take that you like (at least many) of my proposed behaviour, so if you
think you can get that (or be very close to it), it’s fine with me that
you (or anybody else) try to get the setup you find more reasonable to
stop/reduce spam.

Regards.

Oscar Manuel Gómez Senovilla wrote:

I have to say that a small and quick audit of the received spam only in
the last month in this list and the spanish user list is over 100 mails
both together, which is a lot of spam. I don’t know if there’s somewhere
a ranking of spammed lists/forums, but regardless that, these numbers,
by themselves, indicate (sadly) that egw mailing lists/forum are a toy
for spammers, so I think doing nothing about that is not an option.

I don’t know if the following behaviour is possible:

• • Only suscribed members can mail/post in the lists. Of course, everyone
    can read public lists. Moderating only causes a lot of work for
    moderators because most of the moderated stuff will be spam.
• • Forum posts shouldn’t be accepted by default by the mailing list,
    unless the original poster is suscribed. This surely means unsuscribe
    the user for the forum from the mailing list.
• • Additionally, to be considered, something like a different and
    moderated forum/mailing list for non-suscribed users. This would mean
    extra work for the moderators, of course.

In my opinion, nabble policy has done a lot of harm to egw mailing
lists. Theorically according to their policy, spam “is not supposed” to
happen (trusting the posters’ behaviour), but nabble takes no action
against spam, so having an open forum with no spam is not possible in
real internet world. Thus, going back to some hosted forum is the best
in terms of safety and good health.

---

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[wolf.fle]

he,
why not make frank or anyone moderate the forum to remove spam?

to me it seems there is no trust in any fans of egw.
this can not rise up a community.
please make action.
wolf

[Milosch]

We know and understand that it is a problem. I only hope people also
understand that egroupware is not an MTA.

Wolf Fle wrote:

he,
why not make frank or anyone moderate the forum to remove spam?

to me it seems there is no trust in any fans of egw.
this can not rise up a community.
please make action.
wolf

–
Miles Lott
832-754-7006

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[wolf.fle]

he,
shortcuts like MTA do not help - dont know, what you mean.
better call a moderator to remove nonsense from the forum first
and maybe later from the mailing list.
i have read, you are admin of egw.

still trying to support egw
wolf

[wolf.fle]

hi milosch,
why not make frank-d moderate the forum to remove the spam?
as a first step - others can follow - dont you trust him?

the forum is the second view to egw after the homepage.
it does not look nice to see too much spam here.
wolf

We know and understand that it is a problem. I only hope people also
understand that egroupware is not an MTA.

Wolf Fle wrote:

he,
why not make frank or anyone moderate the forum to remove spam?

to me it seems there is no trust in any fans of egw.
this can not rise up a community.
please make action.
wolf

–
Miles Lott
832-754-7006

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[wolf.fle]

the admins here seem to prefer three more inches rather than frank to remove the nonsense.
wolf

Hi all,

I would volunteer helping deleting spam in nabble.

If phpBB with m2f really is much better, we could think about this. But we should consider:
A new forum would imply, that you had to move to the new one on a defined date and after switching you would have to search in 2 forums looking for an answer, in order to see older as well as newer posts. In addition to his users might have to create new accounts.
No forum-mailinglist software is perfect, which problems exactly are solved with phpBB.
On the other hand, I think phpBB, as a php OpenSource programm might offer some strategic advantages. If we use it ourself it might get integrated into egroupware more and more (first user accounts, at the end maybe even as an egw-app).

Anyway, moving our mailinglists, our most important communication channel should not be done light-minded.

Frank

hi,
just wanted to write something else but similar:

if you can not inhibit the mail spam, please at least order a moderator to remove it from the forum.
nabbles moderation by users does not help enough
wolf

In my opinion, the spam reflects poorly on eGroupWare. Perhaps new
users think the following, “If the group cannot figure out how to stop
spam, how can the do anything else right.”

I think non-subscribed senders to the list is allowed to allow the
forums to work, but there must be a better way. I suggest disallowing
non-subscribed members and shutting down the forum. There is likely a
way to have a forum and a list, but until someone shows how to do it,
shut down the forum and improve the image of eGroupWare.

–
Sincerely,
John Thomas

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