Please do not drop SyncML - needed for Nokia and Android

StefS 2012-04-08 15:31:13 UTC #1

Hello - first of all thanks for this software.

But - please do not drop support for SyncML as this is the only possibility for me to sync all the Symbian based phones - especially the older ones with calendar and contacts. Nokia phones support SyncML for many years now.
Additionally SyncML (with the Synthesis client) is really good working on all Android versions. I did not found any other working solution to sync calendar AND addressbook with android with CalDAV or CardDAV. For CardDAV there is only one BETA client that cannot even sync all fields (therefore useless)…

Thanks,
S. Seide

cbahiana 2012-04-08 16:19:49 UTC #2

I second that.

Please, keep the SyncML support.

[]s,
Carlos Bahiana

Ralf_Becker_Stylite 2012-04-09 07:47:24 UTC #3

Hello - first of all thanks for this software.

But - please do not drop support for SyncML as this is the only possibility
for me to sync all the Symbian based phones - especially the older ones with
calendar and contacts. Nokia phones support SyncML for many years now.
Additionally SyncML (with the Synthesis client) is really good working on
all Android versions. I did not found any other working solution to sync
calendar AND addressbook with android with CalDAV or CardDAV. For CardDAV
there is only one BETA client that cannot even sync all fields (therefore
useless)…

Have a look for http://dmfs.org/, thought for all contact fields you
need their contact editor pro, as stock android contacts seem not to
support all fields.

Ralf

Ralf Becker
Director Software Development

Stylite AG

Morschheimer Strasse 15 | Tel. +49 6352 70629 0
D-67292 Kirchheimbolanden | Fax. +49 6352 70629 30

Email: rb@stylite.de

www.stylite.de | www.egroupware.org

Managing Directors: Andre Keller | Ralf Becker | Gudrun Mueller
Chairman of the supervisory board: Prof. Dr. Birger Leon Kropshofer

VAT DE214280951 | Registered HRB 31158 Kaiserslautern Germany

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Achim_Konigs 2012-06-04 16:14:09 UTC #4

Hi,

I’d also be sad to see syncml be dropped completely. (I’m currently working on a SyncML Client for webOS, there is no CalDav client, that I know of…) Is there any reason why that step is planned? I could not find anything in the list or elsewhere… would be nice to hear a reason.

Also it would be nice to have an estimation off when syncml synchronization will be switched off completely.

Regards
Garfonso

Ralf_Becker_Stylite 2012-06-05 07:00:04 UTC #5

Hi,

Hi,

I’d also be sad to see syncml be dropped completely. (I’m currently working
on a SyncML Client for webOS, there is no CalDav client, that I know of…)

If you are about to write a WebOS client, why write I for an old mostly
abandoned protocol. Go for CalDAV.

Is there any reason why that step is planned? I could not find anything in
the list or elsewhere… would be nice to hear a reason.

Reason are, we had so many problems with SyncML and less and less
clients support it. CalDAV code is fully under our control (written by
me), while SyncML largly relys on Horde code, we are not fully familiar
with.

Also it would be nice to have an estimation off when syncml synchronization
will be switched off completely.

With the next release, whenever that is ready.

CalDAV is already up and running with 1.8 and will definitely be
supported for the next years.

Ralf

Ralf Becker
Director Software Development

Stylite AG

Morschheimer Strasse 15 | Tel. +49 6352 70629 0
D-67292 Kirchheimbolanden | Fax. +49 6352 70629 30

Email: rb@stylite.de

www.stylite.de | www.egroupware.org

Managing Directors: Andre Keller | Ralf Becker | Gudrun Mueller
Chairman of the supervisory board: Prof. Dr. Birger Leon Kropshofer

VAT DE214280951 | Registered HRB 31158 Kaiserslautern Germany

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Achim_Konigs 2012-06-05 07:42:05 UTC #6

Ralf Becker-2:

I’d also be sad to see syncml be dropped completely. (I’m currently working
on a SyncML Client for webOS, there is no CalDav client, that I know of…)

If you are about to write a WebOS client, why write I for an old mostly
abandoned protocol. Go for CalDAV.[/quote]

It’s more or less done… I already looked into what I could keep and what not, if I was switching to CalDa. Many things could be reused (for example iCal parsing/generation, integration into the webOS synergy framework).

My issue with CalDav as a client developer, is, that I could not find any instructions or recommendations on how to sync. Everything sounds more like simple data access… does the server have any sync logic at all? Or is this all handed towards the client now? I’m currently looking into the specification and it seems to be possible to implement, for me… sadly there is no CalDav Javascript library. How much difference is there to add if you have a WebDav engine?

In fact, I’m missing something like this: http://community.egroupware.org/index.php?page_name=wiki&lang=&wikipage=SyncML for CalDav. Just a simple write down of the steps to take.

But maybe that’s the wrong place to ask.

Thanks for your reasoning. I can understand that from a developer POV.

[quote=“Ralf Becker-2”]CalDAV is already up and running with 1.8 and will definitely be
supported for the next years.

Now, from a user point of view: This is installed with the GroupDav Application, is it? I have that installed for some time now… Are there plans to add any configuration options for that? Like timezone selection for the export or which calendar to export? Also a documentation page for client settings would be handy… That’s why I currently like SyncML much more. It gives much more control over what happens…

Also: is there note support in 1.8.004 (I’m still running some older 1.8 version)? Or should I convert my notes into tasks?

Cheers
Garfonso

Ralf_Becker_Stylite 2012-06-06 08:32:18 UTC #7

Hi,

Ralf Becker-2 wrote

I’d also be sad to see syncml be dropped completely. (I’m currently
working
on a SyncML Client for webOS, there is no CalDav client, that I know
of…)

If you are about to write a WebOS client, why write I for an old mostly
abandoned protocol. Go for CalDAV.

It’s more or less done… I already looked into what I could keep and what
not, if I was switching to CalDa. Many things could be reused (for example
iCal parsing/generation, integration into the webOS synergy framework).

My issue with CalDav as a client developer, is, that I could not find any
instructions or recommendations on how to sync. Everything sounds more
like simple data access… does the server have any sync logic at all? Or is
this all handed towards the client now? I’m currently looking into the
specification and it seems to be possible to implement, for me… sadly
there is no CalDav Javascript library. How much difference is there to add
if you have a WebDav engine?

In fact, I’m missing something like this:
http://community.egroupware.org/index.php?page_name=wiki&lang=&wikipage=SyncML
for CalDav. Just a simple write down of the steps to take.

CalDAV is defined in RFC 4791:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4791

Basic CalDAV sync does the following (same is true for CardDAV):

do a PROPFIND or REPORT to get url and etag of entries
create diff to entries on your device
- delete ones not in PROPFIND
- request new or modified (different etag) entries via a multiget
  REPORT in chunks of eg. 100 entries per request and update them on the
  client

There’s an extension called CTag (collection tag) which helps to
minimize full updates:

https://trac.calendarserver.org/browser/CalendarServer/trunk/doc/Extensions/caldav-ctag.txt

–> you only run a sync, if CTag changes, which you query periodically

There’s a brand new WebDAV sync RFC 6578 which simplifies and speeds up
synchronisation via WebDAV and therefore CalDAV/CardDAV:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6578

I plan to implement it in EGroupware, but it’s not yet done. Most
clients nowerdays use a fallback mechanism to be compatible with most
servers:

if server supports WebDAV sync use it
if not, check if server supports CTag
if not run a periodic PROPFIND or REPORT

A good starting point for what EGroupware supports in terms of CalDAV /
CardDAV is to visit it with a regular browser. There’s an automatic
index page showing all properties:

http(s)://your-domain.com/egroupware/groupdav.php/

There are a few people maintaining lists of relevant RFC and extensions:

http://trac.calendarserver.org/browser/CalendarServer/trunk/doc/Extensions/

But maybe that’s the wrong place to ask.

Our developers list or CalConnects caldevelopers list would make more sense.

Thanks for your reasoning. I can understand that from a developer POV.

Ralf Becker-2 wrote

CalDAV is already up and running with 1.8 and will definitely be
supported for the next years.

Now, from a user point of view: This is installed with the GroupDav
Application, is it? I have that installed for some time now… Are there
plans to add any configuration options for that? Like timezone selection for
the export or which calendar to export? Also a documentation page for client
settings would be handy… That’s why I currently like SyncML much more. It
gives much more control over what happens…

CalDAV / CardDAV in EGroupware also has a preference where you can
specify what addressbooks or calendars you want to sync and it has the
ablity to enable and show you a traffic log.

According to timezones all CalDAV server and clients are fully timezone
aware, so there’s absolute no need to configure a timezone for the
protocol. Of cause your device should let user define a timezone to use
for newly created (or floating) events.

Also: is there note support in 1.8.004 (I’m still running some older 1.8
version)? Or should I convert my notes into tasks?

There’s currently no support for VJournal / notes in EGroupware via
CalDAV, but I plan to add it, once more clients use it. You can define
in CalDAV / CardDAV preferences which InfoLog types to sync as tasks.

Ralf

Ralf Becker
Director Software Development

Stylite AG

Morschheimer Strasse 15 | Tel. +49 6352 70629 0
D-67292 Kirchheimbolanden | Fax. +49 6352 70629 30

Email: rb@stylite.de

www.stylite.de | www.egroupware.org

Managing Directors: Andre Keller | Ralf Becker | Gudrun Mueller
Chairman of the supervisory board: Prof. Dr. Birger Leon Kropshofer

VAT DE214280951 | Registered HRB 31158 Kaiserslautern Germany

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aristide 2012-06-06 08:39:54 UTC #8

There’s currently no support for VJournal / notes in EGroupware via
CalDAV, but I plan to add it, once more clients use it. You can define
in CalDAV / CardDAV preferences which InfoLog types to sync as tasks.

Good to read, that InfoLog/Tasks can be synched via CalDAV.

Which Android-App can use it ? Currently, I synch InfoLog/Tasks via
SyncML with the Astrid-App.

Thanks

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serge_pecher 2012-06-06 09:55:59 UTC #9

Hello,

Is there any possibility to use cal/carddav with Blackberry ?
For the moment we use SyncML but no so happy with it

Thanks,

Ralf_Becker_Stylite 2012-06-06 09:56:24 UTC #10

http://dmfs.org/

There’s currently no support for VJournal / notes in EGroupware via
CalDAV, but I plan to add it, once more clients use it. You can define
in CalDAV / CardDAV preferences which InfoLog types to sync as tasks.

Good to read, that InfoLog/Tasks can be synched via CalDAV.

Which Android-App can use it ? Currently, I synch InfoLog/Tasks via
SyncML with the Astrid-App.

Thanks

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–
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Director Software Development

Stylite AG

Morschheimer Strasse 15 | Tel. +49 6352 70629 0
D-67292 Kirchheimbolanden | Fax. +49 6352 70629 30

Email: rb@stylite.de

www.stylite.de | www.egroupware.org

Managing Directors: Andre Keller | Ralf Becker | Gudrun Mueller
Chairman of the supervisory board: Prof. Dr. Birger Leon Kropshofer

VAT DE214280951 | Registered HRB 31158 Kaiserslautern Germany

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urodelomutante 2012-06-06 10:48:48 UTC #11

What about Symbian phones? Is there any pim application for symbian which
provides cal-carddav functions? I didn’t find any… and if they exist,
probably they will be proprietary (= another cost)

Moreover, about android, since the notes and todo synchronization lacks
for dmfs products, i see it like a big limitation. I’ve red in another
post that there’s the intention to implement it, but until it will be
available, all the users who need it would prefer to keep the old way.

I still think groupdav is a better way to provide the synchronization, but
imho, providing a way for legacy devices, especially considering that some
users are quite unwilling to change their old but efficient device, should
be considered. This without considering that for somebody buying other
devices could be an unaffordable/unnecessary expensive.

For what I know, all Symbian devices are in such situation, as well as
Sony-Ericsson adn others. Now, imagine a sysadmin going to his manager and
say “Hey boss, do you remember when we (I) have chosen eg for our company
and I’ve pushed you all to buy nokia phones because of their embedded
syncml which is well supported? Well, forget it, we all need to change
phones because syncml will be dropped. Or move to another groupware
solution”

For sure eg company has a better view of its own customer, but from my
point of view, even though I use the community edition, this is a step
back, and I think I’m not the only one who thinks in this way.
I know there’s a large turnover in the smatrtphone world, and it’s a pain
to run against all the different protocols implementation, and it’s
expensive in term of time and resources. In other words, not economically
worth. On the other side, at the moment syncml is already implemented,
therefore, even by not supporting it in future releases of eg, it
shouldn’t be too complicate to let it leave in peace inside eg, even as it
is without further development (assuming the mobile device co. will all
move to gropudav compliant synchronization)

+1 to keep syncml (for me and my users)
Regards
urodelo

Hello - first of all thanks for this software.

But - please do not drop support for SyncML as this is the only
possibility
for me to sync all the Symbian based phones - especially the older ones
with
calendar and contacts. Nokia phones support SyncML for many years now.
Additionally SyncML (with the Synthesis client) is really good working
on
all Android versions. I did not found any other working solution to sync
calendar AND addressbook with android with CalDAV or CardDAV. For
CardDAV
there is only one BETA client that cannot even sync all fields
(therefore
useless)…

Have a look for http://dmfs.org/, thought for all contact fields you
need their contact editor pro, as stock android contacts seem not to
support all fields.

Ralf

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serge_pecher 2012-06-06 14:47:14 UTC #12

Ralph, thanks for the answer, but as far as I know, Blackberry (9700 Bold) is not using Android.
On the site you mention I can only find some solution for Android.

Thanks,

Ralf_Becker_Stylite 2012-06-06 18:34:51 UTC #13

Ralph, thanks for the answer, but as far as I know, Blackberry (9700 Bold) is
not using Android.
On the site you mention I can only find some solution for Android.

I thought you asked about Android.

Sorry to say, but Symbian seems pretty much dead.

Ralf

Ralf Becker
Director Software Development

Stylite AG

Morschheimer Strasse 15 | Tel. +49 6352 70629 0
D-67292 Kirchheimbolanden | Fax. +49 6352 70629 30

Email: rb@stylite.de

www.stylite.de | www.egroupware.org

Managing Directors: Andre Keller | Ralf Becker | Gudrun Mueller
Chairman of the supervisory board: Prof. Dr. Birger Leon Kropshofer

VAT DE214280951 | Registered HRB 31158 Kaiserslautern Germany

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